This is a rush transcript from “Fox News Sunday” November 22, 2020. 이 사본은 최종 형식이 아닐 수 있으며 업데이트 될 수 있습니다..
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I’m Chris Wallace.
The CDC advises American against traveling this Thanksgiving, 같이
coronavirus cases overwhelm hospitals across the country and the death toll
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS
DISEASES: Pause for a moment and do a determination of the risk-benefit
within your family group.
WALLACE (voice-over): State and local governments tightening restrictions
on restaurants, businesses, and social gatherings at the start of the
nation’s busiest travel season.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I’m going to see my family Chicago and I’m so excited
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think people should stay home. It gets lonely out
WALLACE: We’ll talk with Dr. Tom Inglesby, head of the Center for Health
보안, about how to keep yourself safe as we wait for COVID vaccines.
그때, President-elect Biden’s team expresses frustration over the delayed
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT: We don’t have access to all the information
that we need to get from all the various agencies.
WALLACE: We’ll ask Kate Bedingfield, senior advisor to the Biden
전이, how the delay will affect his ability to lead on day one.
을 더한 —
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP’S ATTORNEY: They didn’t elect Joe Biden.
WALLACE: We’ll ask our Sunday panel about President Trump’s continuing bid
to reverse the 2020 선거. What are his chances?
WILTON GREGORY, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: I thought about becoming a
priest before I thought about becoming Catholic.
WALLACE: The archbishop of Washington about to make history as the
nation’s first African-American cardinal.
All, right now, 의 위에 “FOX News Sunday”.
WALLACE (on camera): And hello again from FOX News in Washington.
This weekend, Americans are being urged to double down on the life-saving
measures such as social distancing and mask wearing as the death toll from
the coronavirus passes 250,000, and a record 195,000 new cases just on
금요일. The exploding numbers prompting the CDC to urge people not to
travel for Thanksgiving.
In a moment, we’ll discuss the latest spike and the good news about
vaccines with Dr. Tom Inglesby, one of the nation’s leading experts on
But first, Mark Meredith reports on the tough choices Americans are facing
this holiday season.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I’m a college student, so I don’t really have much of
a choice, but I think any unnecessary travel should be avoided.
MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Millions of Americans
weighing the risks of spending the holiday around the table with loved
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were kind of debating on what to do between getting
together with the whole family or just staying local.
MEREDITH: The demand for testing high, lines long. Here in Washington,
National Park set to open tomorrow as a mega testing site.
The number of COVID patients in hospitals doubling in the past month and
setting records every day. Overwhelming health care systems and leaving
front-line workers frustrated and fatigued.
JAMIE BROWN, MICHIGAN NURSES ASSOCIATION: The restrictions are absolutely
necessary right now. The pandemic is out of control.
MEREDITH: The heightened measures include some 37 states mandating masks,
encouraging residents to stay home and restricting businesses.
In Oregon, it’s a two-week freeze. Philadelphia, a new ban on indoor dining
and in California a nighttime curfew taking effect overnight as cases there
hit 1 million and rising.
DR. PETER CHIN-HONG, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: The rate of increase
in the surge is breathtaking and unexpected.
MEREDITH: Texas shattering its single day record this week with more than
12,000 새로운 케이스, but still resisting lockdowns.
GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS GOVERNOR: There are plenty of tools in the
toolboxes of local authorities to achieve the results that are needed.
MEREDITH: 그 동안에, a bipartisan group of governors in the Midwest where
cases are skyrocketing, urging folks to stick close to home to stop the
ANDY BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY GOVERNOR: No one wants Thanksgiving, 그것은
an amazing time, to become a super-spreader event.
WALLACE: Many of those new restrictions are expected, at least for now, ...에
last two to four weeks.
We want to get the latest from Dr. Tom Inglesby, director of the Center for
Health Security at Johns Hopkins University.
Doctor, I want to start with some more numbers — put them up on the
screen. 이상 83,000 people are now hospitalized in this country.
That’s a record high. 위에 16,000 are in ICUs and more than 5,000 are on
Why are we seeing this new spike right now and how close are we to
overwhelming our health care system?
DR. TOM INGLESBY, JOHN HOPKINS BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Good
morning, 크리스. Thanks for having me on your show.
We are seeing this new spike because of the gradual accumulation of choices
and policies over the last couple of months. This virus has the ability to
spread exponentially, meaning more and more rapidly if we let it, 과
unlike the springtime, when the country really was acting kind of with
common purpose around March and April, at the start of this pandemic and
when the virus was located and comparatively fewer places, the epidemic now
is surging in almost every state in the country with the Midwest and the
Mountain West really being out really in front in terms of rapidly
accelerating numbers of cases.
그래서, it’s not — it’s not confined to a few places, it’s really spread
across the country. It’s not just in big cities but it’s in rural
locations, small towns. And so, that is adding up to record numbers of
hospitalizations and as you said, the pressure on hospitals is the highest
it’s been since the beginning of the pandemic, with about a thousand
hospitals reporting this week that they’re critically short on health care
workers or will be very soon, and that number will grow this week.
So it’s a very, very serious moment for the country in terms of this
감염병 세계적 유행.
WALLACE: 적어도 37 states are now requiring people to wear masks in
public. But the debate over masks and partial or total closures, shutdowns,
Here is South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem.
(비디오 클립 시작)
GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: I’m not in favor of mandating mask
wearing. I don’t believe that I have the authority to mandate that and that
people can use their own personal responsibility to make a decision when it
comes to masks.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: What about the argument that government can recommend, but it
shouldn’t be ordering people what to do or not to do?
INGLESBY: 잘, we trust government to do things to keep us safe. So we
trust government to set speed limits in neighborhoods so we don’t drive too
fast and risk, 알 잖아, injuring or killing kids who were playing in the
street and neighborhood.
So I think that would be the analogy I would think of here. I think there
are some times when it’s really important for government to set the rules
and to ask people to follow them and I think this is one of those times. If
37 states can set mask mandates, then the set rest of the states can set
mask mandates as well, and they should.
WALLACE: Let me ask you about another aspect of this particular debate.
New York City just shut down its public school system, forcing more than 1
million students to stay at home.
But there is some growing evidence that in fact schools are not major
spreaders of the disease.
Here is CDC director, 박사. Robert Redfield, this week.
(비디오 클립 시작)
DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: The truth is for kids K-12, one of the
safest places they can be from our perspective is to remain in school.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: Doctor, what’s the science? Are kids safer staying in school?
INGLESBY: 그래서, it does look like at the K-8 level of school, that kids are
both at — certainly at lower risk of serious disease and probably because
of the way school happens, smaller groups of kids, not mixing together, 아니
large assemblies, that they are safer than high schools or universities,
예를 들면. We haven’t had reports of major outbreaks driving transmission
But on the other hand, we are not systematically enough collecting data
around the country right now. And schools that have made mitigation
measures have been able to decrease classroom density, have been able to
have kids wear masks, and assemblies, change pickup and drop-off, those
schools we think are doing better and are creating safer environments, 그러나
not all schools have been able to do that. Not all schools have the
resources to put mitigation measures in place.
So I do think it’s hard to have universal rules. I don’t think we can go
that far, but in places where they put mitigation procedures in place and
community transmission in that particular school district is relatively
low. I do think those are safer environments. The problem is that now we
are seeing transmission levels across the country that are higher than
they’ve ever been since the start of this pandemic.
그래서, we are kind of entering in uncharted territory in many places, which
have enormous rates of spread. So we haven’t seen those rates of spread in
other parts of the world, so we don’t really have those places to learn
...에서, and I think we have to be very cautious about making judgments about
safety in schools when the rate gets so high in communities.
WALLACE: And then there is Thanksgiving. We are seeing already airports
with long lines of people waiting in line, going through security, getting
Should people travel for Thanksgiving or not? And if they’re bound to
anyway, what can they do to minimize their risk?
INGLESBY: 그래서, I would recommend that people do not travel on Thanksgiving
for this particular holiday. I think if you look at the map of spread
across the country, you can see the risk. It’s very visible.
And moving through airports or travel hubs, I think that will increase
people’s risk, but even if they’re driving from point-to-point,
unfortunately, we don’t know if we’re infected when we walk into a
gathering. CDC came out with data this week that said more than 50 퍼센트
of infections that are happening are caused by people with no symptoms. 그래서
I think the message for everyone is you can’t assume that you don’t have
the virus and you can’t assume that the people who’s home you’re about to
enter don’t have the virus, at this point in our pandemic.
And so, we really should discourage traveling and kind of stick with our
nuclear families, the people that we live with. If you are going to travel
to someone else’s home for Thanksgiving, then if possible, you should spend
as much time outdoors when you’re together. 어떤 곳에서, that may be
possible with the weather, other places not.
People should be wearing masks indoors when they’re together and only
removing them when they’re eating. We should probably keep meals short and
spend more time with masks on. And the smaller the gatherings, the better.
But in general, I would recommend against it. I love being with my family
on Thanksgiving, but this year, we’re staying home, just our nuclear
WALLACE: 그러나, 박사. 스콧 아틀라스, who is one of President Trump’s top COVID-
19 공무원, gave very different advice this week. Take a look.
(비디오 클립 시작)
DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: This kind of
isolation is one of the unspoken tragedies of the elderly, who are now
being told, don’t see your family at Thanksgiving. For many people, this is
their final Thanksgiving, believe it or not. What are we doing here?
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: Straight out, should people listen to Dr. Atlas or not?
INGLESBY: 알 잖아, I don’t think so. I think there — there are a number
of officials from the U.S. government who have 30 years of experience
preparing for and responding to infectious disease outbreaks, including Dr.
Fauci, and I think their advice has been very clear. CDC’s advice is very
clear. CDC’s job is to try to prevent the spread of outbreaks.
나는 생각한다 — I don’t know Dr. Atlas, but his background is quite different,
and I think we should stick with the scientists who have led us through
WALLACE: I’ve got two questions I want to squeeze in here, so I’m going to
need quick answers from you.
First of all, there is some good news, 그리고 그, 물론이야, is the fact
WALLACE: — it looks like we have not one, but two vaccines as part of
Operation Warp Speed. They’re on the way. Pfizer on Friday applied for
emergency use authorization.
Assuming that they’re approved by the FDA, how confident should Americans
be about taking these vaccines?
INGLESBY: 네. I wouldn’t call this good news. I would call this great
good news. It’s fantastic. It’s probably the best news we’ve had since the
start of the pandemic.
We have two vaccines that are making their way through the approval process
that may be as high as 95 percent effective and seemed to be safe based on
the information we’ve seen so far. Obviously, they need to go through the
usual FDA review process, and that’s going to begin now for one of the
vaccines and will begin shortly for the second.
But if it does get through that process and if they are reviewed by an
external scientific committee which has no stake in the outcome except for
the safety and effectiveness for Americans of these vaccines, then I will
have confidence in those vaccines. 물론이야, I want to know about others
from within the government, with a think about it, what Dr. Fauci think
about it, what other scientific authorities in FDA and CDC think about it.
But at this point I will have confidence in the vaccine, and if — if it
makes it through those processes and I think it will help us change the
course of this pandemic in the months ahead.
WALLACE: 드디어, and I need a quick answer here, the delayed transition –
WALLACE: — President-elect Biden said today that people may die because
the Trump administration is not reading them in on vaccine distribution
issues for a seamless turnover on January 20th. But the president’s press
secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, said that the — that information is already
Take a look.
(비디오 클립 시작)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT: We don’t have access to all the information
that we need to get from all the various agencies.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It’s the COVID-19
vaccination program, the interim playbook for jurisdiction operations. 이
is publicly available if the former vice president would like to read
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: Is McEnany right? Is the public playbook enough?
INGLESBY: 아니, it’s not. 내말은, there’s so much going on inside the
government to prepare — to respond to this pandemic and to prepare for it.
I think about it like a hospital taking care of many patients.
When a shift is leaving, the doctors and nurses who’ve been taken care of
all the sick patients, they spend time with the shift that is coming in.
They want to explain the details, what could go wrong, who’s been in
That’s the same thing that should be happening now. We should be going over
the details, the people who are leaving are going to need to take — 필요한 것
to spend time with and explain in detail all the science and the data for
people who are coming in.
WALLACE: 박사. Inglesby, 감사합니다. Thanks again for your time and we wish
you a happy and safe Thanksgiving, sir.
INGLESBY: Thanks so much, 크리스, you too.
WALLACE: Up next, we’ll bring in our Sunday group to discuss the politics
and policy of COVID-19, and the promise of vaccines that look to be on the
(비디오 클립 시작)
FAUCI: If you’re fighting a battle and the cavalry is on the way, you
don’t stop shooting, you keep going until the cavalry gets here, and then
you might even want to continue fighting.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: 박사. 안토니 포시, the nation’s top infectious disease official,
urging Americans to continue best practices just a bit longer as we wait
for those COVID vaccines.
And it’s time now for our Sunday group — former Republican Congressman
Jason Chaffetz, former Democratic Congresswoman Jane Harman, director of
the Wilson Center, and Jonathan Swan from “Axios”.
Jonathan, is there any push inside the White House to begin a provisional
transition to read members of the Trump — of the Biden transition team in
on things like vaccine distribution just in case, or is that still regarded
as an act of disloyalty to President Trump and his effort to overturn
JONATHAN SWAN, AXIOS NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: None whatsoever. It’s
still regarded an act of disloyalty to President Trump and no one in his
circle has coercive power to that effect at this point. They are privately
distancing themselves from the Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, 제나 엘리스
legal effort which now asserts that there is an international criminal
communist conspiracy stretching from Venezuela to Cuba, involving hacking
into voting machines and switching millions of votes. That’s not a widely
accepted theory inside Trump’s inner circle.
Even some of his most hard-core loyalists staying the heck away from that,
but that doesn’t mean that they are sitting down with the president saying,
씨. 대통령, you have to concede and start doing transition. That’s not
happening to — as far as my reporting is concerned.
WALLACE: Congressman Chaffetz, this week the governor of your state, 의
유타, issued a mask mandate for the first time. As we are seeing, and you
just heard Dr. Inglesby stay the spread of the virus is the worst that it’s
been by several measures, several multiples, 195 cases on Friday alone. Are
some conservatives beginning to rethink this issue of mandates and closures
JASON CHAFFETZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: 잘, I think doing it state-by-
state does make sense. Utah early on in the process was not suffering a
But I think the principle of personal decision-making, making sure that the
information is out there and that people take personal responsibility is
still core to what Republicans believe in. 과, 보기, it was Donald Trump
and his administration very early in this process talked about the 15 일
to slow the spread into wash her hands vigorously, don’t touch your face,
마스크를 쓰다, and to be socially distant.
And I still think that those are viable — 알 잖아, that’s the way people
should go, but they also have to have some degree of personal
responsibility because in some of the most stringent places like New York,
they’ve seen some of the highest death rates. So we learned a lot, 그러나
those are smart things to do. We should listen to the scientists.
WALLACE: 그러나, 에 — as I said, the Republican governor of the deeply red
state of Utah issued a mask mandate for the first time. Do you have a
problem with that?
CHAFFETZ: Not — it’s not as deep as some of these other states. There was
a very strong recommendation, but it’s not so far as to say what Gavin
Newsom said in California to wear a mask and to put it back on in between
bites of food. That’s not what Governor Herbert said.
WALLACE: 아니, he didn’t say that, he just said wear a mask when you can.
Congresswoman Harman, I want to talk to you about these two vaccines that
have now gone through the trial process and one of them at Pfizer is now
seeking emergency use authorization.
Here is the head of Pfizer.
(비디오 클립 시작)
ALBERT BOURLA, PFIZER CEO: We are announcing that finally we are
submitting our application for emergency use authorization to the U.S. FDA.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: Doesn’t President Trump deserve credit, in fact a great deal of
신용, for Operation Warp Speed and this private partner — private-public
partnership which has resulted in two vaccines in less than ten months with
more on the way?
JANE HARMAN, FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN (D-CA): 예. I think he does. But let’s
understand that the pharma companies started ahead of Warp Speed to start
developing these vaccines and developed them in a brand-new way. 그래서, 예,
Congress does too. Congress provided $ 10 billion in the CARES Act in March,
which give a jump-start to Moderna, which had virtually no ability to do
this. Pfizer did. Pfizer has been much more successful, robust company and
now they are both almost at the finish line.
But one more point, 크리스. Developing a vaccine is great. Getting them in
people’s arms is the new challenge.
And I want President Trump to be first in line getting one of those
vaccines so that he can show millions of Americans who still think we need
to stop the steal that these are safe and efficacious because we won’t get
to the end of this unless we have a country where a huge number of people
WALLACE: 그러나, Jonathan, instead of celebrating the Pfizer announcement on
금요일, President Trump suggested that the company had actually held up its
announcement of the new vaccine until after the election.
Take a look at the president on Friday.
(비디오 클립 시작)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: They waited and waited and
waited and they thought they’d come out with it a few days after the
선거. And it would have probably had an impact, 누가 알아, maybe it
wouldn’t have. I’m sure they would have found the ballots someplace, 그만큼
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: Does the president really believe that big pharma was out to get
him and purposely in the case of Pfizer delayed this announcement because
he wants to lower drug prices?
SWAN: 잘, that would require sort of an MRI of his soul. 내말은, I don’t
know whether he genuinely believes that. He certainly was saying it
privately to advisors in the lead up to election. He was watching these ads
hitting him from the pharmaceutical industry and he was making comments to
his aides that, 오, we are clearly doing something right, 알 잖아, they
are trying to get me.
과, 알 잖아, as one of his aides said to me, he sees everything through
the prison of his self. 그래서, it’s completely in character for him to see
that announcement as all about him and trying to game the election.
WALLACE: Congressman Chaffetz, last word here. And I need a pretty brief
Do you think it’s credible that Pfizer was playing politics here and
delaying the announcement of this vaccine, which is so important to the
국가, so important to Pfizer, just to try to hurt the president’s
CHAFFETZ: I really don’t know, 크리스, but it did come out just one week
선거 후. I wish it had come out naturally when it was supposed
...에. 과 — but most importantly I hope it helps and saves the lives of
millions of Americans.
WALLACE: 잘, I think that’s something that all of us can agree on.
Panel, we have to take a break here, but when we come back, how President-
elect Biden is proceeding facing resistance from the Trump White House and
pressure from the left. We’ll talk with a key member of the Biden team.
WALLACE: Coming up, Donald Trump keeps fighting the election results in
court and delaying the transition.
(비디오 클립 시작)
BIDEN: Incredibly damaging messages being sent to the rest of the world
about how democracy functions.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: We’ll ask a senior advisor to the president-elect, Kate
Bedingfield, how the Biden field to team is handling these challenges.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: President-elect Biden is expected to
announce key members of his cabinet this week, even as President Trump
keeps trying to overturn the election.
In a moment, we’ll speak with Kate Bedingfield, senior advisor to the Biden
But let’s begin with Jacqui Heinrich, who’s tracking the president-elect in
JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: 크리스, President-elect Joe Biden’s
legal team says the system is working as recounts affirm Biden’s win. Cases
are tossed in courts, including a case in battleground Pennsylvania
yesterday and Michigan legislators are summoned to Washington in an
apparent bid to appoint faithless electors.
BOB BAUER, BIDEN LEGAL ADVISER: While the president and his allies are
ripping at the fabric of the democracy in any way they can, the fabric is
not tearing. It’s holding firm.
HEINRICH (voice over): Despite time lost coordinating with federal agencies
amid a public health and economic crisis, President-elect Joe Biden’s team
so far has not pursued legal action.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It’s not going to speed it
up considerably in my view. 과, in the meantime, 나는 — I am hopeful that
I’m going to be able to get cooperation from our Republican colleagues in
the Senate and the House.
HEINRICH: 대신, he’s forming his government amid calls for inclusion
from progressives and some criticism over his first hires.
JEN PSAKI, BIDEN TRANSITION ADVISER: I would encourage people to wait until
we’ve made even one announcement about a cabinet member and certainly more
than just a dozen White House names before they pass judgment.
HEINRICH: Biden’s also calling on states and Congress to do what he can’t
right now, including passing an emergency aid package to fight the pandemic
and repair the economy.
BIDEN: In my Oval Office, mi casa, you casa. I’m going to need that. 나는 희망
we’re going to spend a lot of time together.
HEINRICH: Biden is expected to announce some cabinet nominees on Tuesday.
He’s already picked his choice to head up the Treasury and significantly
that name has not been leaked, 크리스.
WALLACE: Jacqui Heinrich reporting from Wilmington.
And joining us now, senior advisor to the Biden transition team, Kate
Kate, welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION SENIOR ADVISER: Thanks for having
WALLACE: Does the president-elect have any concerns whether or not
President Trump’s effort to overturn the election will succeed, and is he
reconsidering at all his decision not to go to court either, 하나, ...에
protect his victory in the election and, 두, to try to force the
transition to begin?
BEDINGFIELD: 아니, he does not have any concern. I think what we’ve seen over
the course of the last few weeks are these lawsuits, these lawsuits from
the Trump campaign and their allies have been laughed out of court after
court all across the country. They are getting absolutely no traction.
We’ve seen the Republican governor and Republican secretary of state in
Georgia this week reaffirm the — the recount results there, reaffirm the
outcomes that Joe Biden won the state of Georgia.
보기, Joe Biden won the selection by 80 million votes. He won 306 Electoral
College votes, which is the same — the same outcome from 2016 that Donald
Trump called a landslide when he won 306 Electoral College votes.
그래서, 아니, we have absolutely no concern that this is going to have any
outcome on — on the election itself.
On your question about the transition and suing the GSA, 내가 말할 것, 보기,
알 잖아, litigation is not a panacea. It is not going to — to suddenly
move things forward. What will move things forward is the GSA administrator
signing the piece of paper, 알 잖아, the statute says that it is her
obligation to ascertain the apparent winner of the election.
I don’t think there’s anybody in the world who would suggest, except maybe
the folks around Donald Trump, that Joe Biden was not the apparent winner
of this election. 다시, he won 306 Electoral College votes and 80 백만
votes from Americans all across the country. So she should ascertain the
results of the election so that we can move forward with a seamless
WALLACE: 지금, in his defense, President Trump argues that Democrats sought
to delegitimize his election from the very start, in pushing the idea that
there was a Russia collusion, pushing the Mueller investigation, even
impeaching him. The president says that your side has no right to complain
now when he is contesting this election.
BEDINGFIELD: 그건, frankly, 크리스, I think that is absurd. And that is
an apples and oranges comparison at best. What we’re talking about right
now is Donald Trump actively trying to overturn the will of the American
people state-by-state. And what we’re seeing across the board is that
courts across the country, governors and secretaries of state across the
country are rejecting that. They’re saying the — the election was fair. It
was legitimate. Joe Biden won by a handy margin. 다시, a margin that
Donald Trump himself called a landslide in 2016. And we’re continuing to
see Republicans come out and acknowledge this as well. 알 잖아, 평의원
Toomey made a statement yesterday acknowledging Joe Biden as the president-
elect and encouraging the transition to move forward. We’ve seen even
Donald Trump’s national security advisor Robert O’Brien has said that the
transition should move forward.
So I think all across the country Americans rose — rose up —
WALLACE: 그러나 — but what about the — but what about the argument that that
— but if I may, just what about the argument that Democrats were trying to
overturn the legitimate election of — of Donald Trump? Maybe not in — so
much in contesting the election, but the way they acted on a number of
fronts with investigations over the four years of his presidency?
BEDINGFIELD: I don’t think that when a president gets elected that he is no
longer held accountable as he moves through his administration. 나는 생각한다
that’s an incredibly different thing. I think investigations into whether a
president has behaved appropriately or not — or not are entirely — an
entirely different matter than what Donald Trump is trying to do here,
which is to — is to actively overturn the will of the American people, ...에
subvert the democratic system, to sow doubt about — about the foundations
of our democracy. That is a completely different thing. And it’s — 보기,
it’s a PR stunt. It’s a sideshow. I think you would only have to look at
Rudy Giuliani’s press conference a couple of days ago to appreciate that
this is not a serious, sophisticated effort. 과, most importantly, it will
fail. It has failed, it’s continuing to fail, because, 다시, 조 바이든
overwhelmingly won this election, 306 Electoral College votes. The American
people voted for Joe Biden to be sworn in on January 20, 2021, and he will
WALLACE: Right. How many — we — we understand that the — it’s been
announced the president-elect is going to name some cabinet appointments on
화요일. How many, and which ones?
BEDINGFIELD: 잘, I have been in this business long enough to know that I
am not going to get ahead of President-elect Biden and his announcement.
But you are right, we will be making our first cabinet announcements on
Tuesday of this week and, 알 잖아, I would say the president-elect is very
excited about this team and looks forward to introducing them to the
WALLACE: Can you even tell us a number, how many?
BEDINGFIELD: I can’t. 나는 — everyone will have to just tune in on Tuesday
and we will — it will be made known then.
The president also — president-elect, and we — we showed it in — 에
Jacqui’s piece, met with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer on Friday. And he
talked afterwards about he wants to see a COVID relief bill passed by the
lame duck Congress and the next couple of weeks. Can’t wait until January
Question, when is he going to meet with Senate Majority Leader Mitch
BEDINGFIELD: 잘, he’s looking forward to doing that when the time is
권리. Obviously, 알 잖아, he and Senator McConnell have had productive
working relationship in the past and he looks forward to — to meeting with
Senator McConnell when that moment — when that moment arrives.
But you’re absolutely right, he believes that we need to get a relief bill
done in the lame duck. People are hurting all over the country. People need
money in their pockets to make rent. They need money in their pockets to
afford groceries. Small businesses need that money. Teachers need that
돈. Tough decisions about layoffs of firefighters and essential workers
are being made all over this country because Congress won’t move forward on
— on a package. So that is a priority for him. That is something that he’s
going to continue to push in the lame duck.
WALLACE: 그러나 — 그러나, Kate — 그러나, 그러나, Kate, you — you can’t pass COVID
relief without the Senate majority leader. He is the majority leader in the
상원, 미치 맥코넬. Is the president-elect ready to meet with him now?
In other — I’m trying to get a sense, is it President-elect Biden whose
holding up the meeting or is it Mitch McConnell?
BEDINGFIELD: We strongly hope that Senator McConnell will come to the
table. I think if you look at where the Democrats have been across the
entire course of this year. 알 잖아, Democrats passed a bill back in May
and we’ve seen — we’ve seen obstruction from Republicans. 그래서, obviously,
we are very helpful that Mitch McConnell will come to the table. It is
중대한. People are expecting it. 알 잖아, they voted for — in this —
in this election, they voted for action, they voted for progress and they
voted for some —
WALLACE: But just to — just to — just to press this, would — would Biden
만나다 — would — would Biden meet with McConnell right now?
BEDINGFIELD: 예, absolutely. 물론. 예. 예. It is important that
Senator McConnell come to the table.
WALLACE: So the holdup here —
BEDINGFIELD: And we’re — and we’re very hopeful — we’re very hopeful that
we’ll be able to see progress soon on this bill because people all across
the country desperately need it.
WALLACE: 그만큼 — the president-elect is already taking heat from the — 그만큼
left wing of the Democratic Party. I want to play some of that, that we saw
Take a look.
(비디오 클립 시작)
대표. RASHIDA TLAIB (D-MI): We’re going to make sure that the Biden
administration sticks to our timeline, is moving towards our timeline. 과
so I ask all of you, do not move from the needle. Do not.
대표. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): That’s what our next move is, is to
make sure that the Biden administration keeps its promise.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: And Senator Bernie Sanders said it would be, 인용문, enormously
insulting if Biden ignored the progressive community.
So how much pressure does the president-elect feel to repay the left for
its support in this election?
BEDINGFIELD: Joe Biden was elected with an incredibly broad coalition of
voters and a broad coalition of support. That includes support from the
progressive wing of the party. That includes support from the more moderate
wing of the party. It included support from independents and Republicans. 나는
mean he won 80 million votes all across the country, an historic number of
votes for a president-elect.
그래서, 보기, we have every intention, I can tell you definitively, 조 바이든
is going to keep his promises. He is — he put — he laid out plans on this
campaign that are bold and that meet the crises that we’re facing. We’re
facing four incredibly overwhelming and historic crises in this country,
including the public health crisis and the economic crisis that goes with
그것, in addition to the climate crisis and the racial injustice crisis that
we’re seeing in this country.
BEDINGFIELD: He campaigned on bold plans to tackle all of these crises that
he has every intention of keeping his promises.
WALLACE: Kate, 감사합니다. Thanks for joining us. I hope you get at least
the day off for Thanksgiving, but I suspect it’s a busy time for you.
BEDINGFIELD: It is, but thank you very much for having me. 나는 — 나는
appreciate being here, 크리스.
WALLACE: Up next, our Sunday panel returns to discuss President Trump’s
ongoing effort to challenge the results of the 2020 선거.
(비디오 클립 시작)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Big pharma ran millions of
dollars of negative advertisements against me during the campaign, which I
won, by the way, 그러나, 알 잖아, we’ll find that out. Almost 74 백만
투표. We had big pharma against us. We had the media against us. We had
big tech against us.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: 트럼프 대통령, once again, claiming victory over Joe Biden and a
wide array of opponents.
And we’re back now with the panel.
Jonathan, 그만큼 — the president and his legal team had a bad week in trying
to overturn the election, both in court and also in meetings with state
legislators and trying to get them to flip the electors that each state
Where does the president stand now in this effort to try to reverse the
results of the election?
JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, “AXIOS”: 잘, it’s hard to
actually see. I mean I just got a fundraising e-mail from the Trump
campaign assuring me that there is a path to victory and raising small
dollar donations from a bunch of Republican donors, small donors, many of
them elderly, telling them that there’s still a way to win.
I can’t see it and — 과, frankly, when I talk to most of the president’s
senior advisors, but whether it be the campaign or the West Wing, they
can’t see it either. They’re not — they’re not saying that publicly, 의
course, but that’s what they do say privately almost universally. They’re
trying several tracks. They’re trying litigation. They just got thrown out
of court in Pennsylvania. They’re trying sort of coercion with some of
these state legislatures, trying to get them to overturn the electors. 과
then they’re doing a sort of macro — I don’t even know what you would call
그것, but this is what I referred to earlier, this conspiracy theory that is
very hard to follow, but is being pushed by his — President Trump and his
WALLACE: I’m — I’m going to pick up on — I’m going to pick up on that in
SWAN: 예. 확인. 확실한.
WALLACE: 그러나 — but you — from everything you can see, the president is
still full speed ahead?
SWAN: 예. 예, I haven’t seen any sign that he’s pulling back. 그러나, 다시,
I see no sign that there’s any plausible path forward.
WALLACE: Congressman Chaffetz, you are a loyal supporter of — 의
president, but I — I want to play, 그리고 — this is what Jonathan was
referring to, a clip of one of the top members of his legal team this week.
Take a look.
(비디오 클립 시작)
SIDNEY POWELL, TRUMP ATTORNEY: What we are really dealing with here and
uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money
through Venezuela, Cuba, and likely China in the interference with our
elections here in the United States.
(비디오 클립 종료)
WALLACE: There is not, Congressman, a shred of evidence that any of that is
Do you have no concerns that this may be damaging the country?
JASON CHAFFETZ, FORMER CONGRESSMAN (R-UT) AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I do
have some concerns. 나는 — it’s one thing to have a president — or to have a
press conference, but they do need to produce evidence. 과, 솔직히,
the only ones that it matters are in front of a court. And so they’ve got
to prevail in a court. Supposedly, they’re going to be aggressive there in
— 에 — in the state of Georgia. I do think there is evidence there. 나는
— to suggest that there’s no evidence I think it would be wrong.
And let me just add, 크리스, (INAUDIBLE) —
WALLACE: 그러나, wait, wait, wait. Wait, you think there — wait, Congressman,
you think there’s evidence of communist money pouring through Venezuela,
Cuba, and China to overthrow this election?
CHAFFETZ: 아니. 아니, I don’t. 아니, I don’t. even — even —
WALLACE: To turn — 알 잖아, ...에 — to falsely elect Joe —
CHAFFETZ: 아니. 아니, but what I do — like, she even said likely China, 그러나 —
WALLACE: 아니, you don’t think there’s evidence?
CHAFFETZ: 잘, I think there’s — you’re — you’re trying to lump it into
just one group. I’m just saying there are lots of fronts on which there are
some bits of evidence. But to suggest that there’s likely Chinese money
flowing through this, I don’t see any evidence of that. Even the attorney
is saying it — it might happen.
But the point I want to make here, 크리스, 이다, continuity of government is
imperative. I do think the GSA should loosen up that money. Maybe the
president will prevail. Personally, I hope that they do. But if they don’t,
continuity of government is far too important, and that should happen.
WALLACE: Congresswoman Harman, I want to pull back on this just a little
bit because what the president is trying to do here, 에 — in a specific
case where he met with state legislatures, is trying to tie up states that
Biden won, their ability to name electors for Biden so that the state
legislatures, in places where they’re controlled by Republicans, could
actually certify Trump electors.
What do you make of all that?
JANE HARMAN, FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN (D-CA) AND WILSON CENTER DIRECTOR: 잘,
it’s — they’re up to no good. I observed elections in about ten countries,
including Afghanistan and Chile and Ukraine and — and everywhere else over
the years, never expecting that my own country would set a bad example. 에
것, Richard Nixon, after he lost in 1960, when there was some credible
evidence of election fraud, unlike now, said that the transition had to
proceed because he didn’t want to set a bad example.
This is bogus. I’m a member of the 44 person National Council on Election
Integrity, equal Dems and — and Republicans, who say to a person that this
has to stop. And what’s — what he’s trying now, he’s absolutely failed in
terms of litigation strategy, is to blow up the Electoral College. 그리고
미시간, 다시, there’s a request for a 14 day delay, which I hope will be
turned down, or I hope the governor, if she has to, she’ll replace a couple
of the electors and get this going.
But the point is to delay the vote through December 14th, which is when
it’s supposed to happen. And then, in some Hail Mary sense, throw this to
the House, where the election goes by state and there are 26 states that
have a majority Republican delegation. So he would technically win in the
I don’t think it will work. I think it’s past time to get on with the
전이. And I do think — I disagree totally with Kelly McEnany (ph) —
HARMAN: That there’s a handbook that Biden should be reading about this.
WALLACE: I’ve got less than a minute left, Jonathan. As I discussed with
케이트 베딩필드, the president-elect is getting some real heat from the
left now. We helped you win this election, now we want payback.
How much clout does the left have with the — President-elect Biden and his
전이, both in terms of policy and personnel?
SWAN: I think very little. They’ve, firstly, they tried to defeat him in
the primaries and they didn’t. And now they’re in a position where,
frankly, you’re looking at, unless they have a disaster in the Georgia
runoffs, a Republican-controlled Senate. 그래서, 알 잖아, they can pass the
green new deal through the House or push for Elizabeth Warren at Treasury,
but good luck. Good luck getting any of that through Mitch McConnell’s
WALLACE: 감사합니다, panel. See you next Sunday and happy Thanksgiving to
all of you.
Up next our “금주의 파워 플레이어,” the archbishop of Washington on
leading Catholics in the nation’s capital and about to make history once
WALLACE: This Saturday, Pope Francis will elevate 13 leaders of the
Catholic Church to the rank of cardinal. Among them, Washington Archbishop
윌튼 그레고리, who will become the first black American to hold that
position. And he’s our “Power Player of the Week.”
WILTON GREGORY, CARDINAL-DESIGNATE: The past is real. It’s painful. But the
future is also possible and hopefully very positive.
I resolve to serve faithfully the spiritual needs of this local church.
WALLACE (voice over): Wilton Gregory has been the archbishop of Washington
...에 대한 18 months, and it’s been a painful time for Catholics here. 에 2019,
longtime Cardinal Theodore McCarrick was defrocked after being found guilty
of sexual abuse.
WALLACE (on camera): How do you help parishioners and priests keep their
trust in the church?
GREGORY: I have to be a man who’s committed to telling people the truth, 같이
— as best as I know.
WALLACE: What do you say about the betrayal by Cardinal McCarrick?
GREGORY: I think it’s horrific. It was just a — an egregious betrayal of
trust that has deeply wounded this local church.
Do this in memory of me.
WALLACE (voice over): As soon as he took over, Gregory started talking to
parishioners and holding listening sessions with priests to discuss the
church scandals that have troubled all of them.
WALLACE (on camera): Have they tested your faith in the church as an
GREGORY: 크리스, they haven’t tested my faith, they’ve tested my patience.
WALLACE (voice over): As head of the archdiocese in the nation’s capital,
Gregory has to deal with subjects beyond religion. He supports a path to
citizenship as part of comprehensive immigration reform at a time when
people crossing the border illegally is still highly charged.
GREGORY: Anyone who denigrates the people who seek a better future, a more
positive way of living for their family, to denigrate them is wrong.
WALLACE: Gregory was in sixth grade when he transferred from public to
parochial school. In short order, he decided to convert to Catholicism and
become a priest.
GREGORY: I thought about becoming a priest before I thought about becoming
WALLACE (on camera): To be a priest, it would help — be helpful to be a
GREGORY: You said exactly what my own pastor said, that if you’re
interested in being a priest, we’ve got to take this step-by-step. You
can’t steal first base.
WALLACE (voice over): 이번 주, Gregory will take an historic step,
becoming the first African-American cardinal in the U.S., the rank just
below the papacy in the Catholic Church.
When we spoke last year, Gregory said he was in no hurry for Pope Francis
to change the color of his vestments.
GREGORY: I think he would be very disappointed if he sent me here and I got
a bad case of scarlet fever. My first concern before I think about a color
that I might wear is to care for the people that are here right in front of
WALLACE: Due to the pandemic, Gregory arrived in Rome early so he could
quarantine for ten days before the ceremony next weekend.
And that’s it for today. Have a great week and a happy and safe
Thanksgiving and we’ll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
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